Thursday, June 27, 2013

Take it down from the mast....














Flags matter, symbols matter, slogans matter.  Would I have been quite such a jolly welshman if I hadn't grown-up seeing all the "Free Wales" slogans painted on walls in Mid-Wales during the 1960s.  At least they showed that not everyone agreed with the status quo and that there was another point of view.  Even today my heart lifts a little when I see Owain Glyndwr's banner fluttering in the streets of a border town or outside a cottage in some unexpected corner of Radnorshire.  Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if one 1960s "Home Rule" slogan had more impact on the general population than any number of our modern-day blog posts.  So I don't decry the part-time patriots of the National Stadium or the dressing-up associated with St David's day, better that than nothing at all.

The flag at the top of this post is a proposed Radnorshire flag which is being pushed by some (thanks to poster Fferllys for bringing it to my attention).  It's a pretty design incorporating the boar's head of Elystan Glodrydd with the azure and gold colours of the Mortimer family.  And there you have the problem.  The Mortimers were petty conquistadores who attempted to steal the lands of the Radnorshire folk and murder their leaders and patriots.  Why on earth would any Radnorian want to celebrate these rogues?  Let them stay in Wigmore where they belong.  At least the banner flown by the good folk of Llwyth Elystan - it's based on the arms of Cadwgan ab Elystan - has none of this Mortimer nonsense.

Of course there's a good chance that the Mortimer design could be adopted, after all Pembrokeshire already has a county flag which is seemingly flown from public buildings, you can even buy one on ebay.  Oh and look how it's advertised













Isn't that the truth of the matter, these flags appeal to those who would prefer to live in the English county of Pembrokeshire?

Wales has a flag and let's not forget that it only achieved official recognition in 1959.  The enemies of Wales have always seen the value of symbols, which is why they fought a rearguard action against Y Ddraig Goch, even trying to foist this monstrosity on the country as recently as the mid 1950s.

19 comments:

Fferllys said...

Just in case of interest, I have added some ideas to the discussion about a county flag for Radnorshire, on the forums of the 'Association of British Counties':

http://abcounties.com/forums/topic/radnorshire-flag/

...intended as food for historical thought to counter the predominance of Mortimer emblems in what others have proposed.

Its probably best not to bother with a flag, but if there is a move to push the idea of one for Radnorshire at some point in the future, then at least they may think more of the boars heads and lion rampant retardant.

RLF said...

It's a very interesting debate, of course, and one which I leapt into without quite looking properly,and for which I am very sorry. Googling can make it easy to make these kinds of mistakes, and I should have remembered that. Especially since the Normans are still running this country, and we are still living with the consequences of their institutionalised greed.We now have a much more pleasing design, based in part on the comments of Radnorian, that the colours of the victor of Bryn Glas would be much more suitable!
At http://radnorshireliberationfront.wordpress.com/ , you can see that we have taken on board most of the vexillological critiques. We make the point that the flag of Radnorshire (and Fferllys has posted some interesting designs) and the flag of the RLF (which is, after all, a spoof designed to annoy the members of the Powys CC Cabinet)not necessarily the same thing...

radnorian said...

You're quite right to claim Glasbury, south of the Wye - but what about Builth Hundred, Ceri and various parishes across the border such as Brilley, Huntington etc. We shouldn't allow the views of a bunch of 16C bureaucrats to define Radnorshire.

Anonymous said...

why do flags have to be asked on long lost history.Why not a Radnor flag for today .Forget the Mortimers and let's build some modern myths and legends.

radnorian said...

I think we should leave the modern myths and legends to Hollywood and the security services. Know a bit of long lost history and you're less likely to fall for the latest cunning wheeze.

Fferllys said...

I agree!

This is the latest on the debate:
http://abcounties.com/forums/topic/radnorshire-flag/?doing_wp_cron=1372709152.1745820045471191406250

radnorian said...

Well done Fferllys for arguing the case for something that is at least relevant to the history and spirit of the county.

Fferllys said...

Thank you, I really appreciate that.

An idea connected to Radnorshire's history has come to mind and I wonder whether there would be any chance of discussing it with you, as I think you might really be interested. If so, could we connect? You are welcome to do so via fferllys@elystan.co.uk I hope you do not mind my asking. I would certainly completely respect any Radnorian blogger confidentiality.

Nicky Warrington said...

I despise the notion of creating 'modern myths'. It reminds me of those awful 'Llandoddies' around Llandrindod. Although I feel sorry for the artist, I always find it funny when one gets defaced or knocked down. And as for that bloody dragon...

Anonymous said...

why despise modernity and try to live in a past which is no more and which only a minority have any affinity with.To have meaning symbols must have to resonate with people today who are proud to be Radnorians but are not stepped in Welsh history nor sadly able to understand Welsh.

radnorian said...

I suppose you'd have to define modernity before we could tell you if we despise it or not.

So what are these symbols, modern myths and legends which would resonate with Radnorians, please tell.

Anonymous said...

great question Radnorian and it has really set me thinking what makes modern Radnor.I don't think I am smart enough to define the themes nor represent them on a flag but think themes would include unspoilt uninhabited countryside;,community;being Welsh;nature as it should be;honest endeavour;our role as a border county.What do your esteemed bloggers believe are the positive themes we think of when we think of moden day Radnorshire?

Fferllys said...

Annonymous - Radnorshire may not have your "unspoilt" countryside for much longer - there are fresh plans for trailing wind turbines near Knighton, and I believe elsewhere. There is growing pressure for expansion of wind generation in mid-Wales....they think its just emptiness and so wind farms can't be an eyesore or intrude on beautiful landscapes. If only they knew.

Bearing in mind Radnorian's recent post about Radnorshire bias, perhaps the Water Bailiffs of early 20thC Rhaeadr might have some words of advice on how to avoid 'trouble at mill' (wind variety)...

Fferllys said...

P.S. to Anonymous - re your "great question Radnorian and it has really set me thinking what makes modern Radnor"

This illuminates the wisdom of what Radnorian wrote earlier, if I may presume to quote his words again:

"I think we should leave the modern myths and legends to Hollywood and the security services. Know a bit of long lost history and you're less likely to fall for the latest cunning wheeze."

This is why a place's unique history is important. No where else in the world has Radnorshire's history - stay connected to this rich root of heritage, whilst enjoying the new branches and blossoms of the root's new growth and one can be entirely authentic. Blossoms can't occur without the root to feed them - if there's no root, what looks new and fresh can only be 'fake' like plastic plants in an office!

Anonymous said...

"Unspoilt"?

Radnorshire has been 'spoilt. since the first people turned up following the retreat of the ice sheets.

See those 'wild' hills? Tamed. Tamed by the backbreaking labour of generations of Radnorians.

See Cwm Elan and Dyffryn Claerwen? One of Wales's most industrialised landscapes outside of Glamorgan and Gwent.

See also this (not about Radnorshire specifiaclly, but not a long way away): http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2013/jun/26/wales-cambrians-welsh-language

radnorian said...

Excellent comment anon and a most interesting link.

I remember reading back in the late 60s, it might have been in New Society or some such mag, a proposal to fence off Elenid/Elenydd/Cambrian Mts and stock it with wolves, bear, beaver etc. Pretty much the same idea as Monbiot is pushing now.

I don't think the locals figured much in that plan. As in Epynt and Tryweryn they were a problem to be rid of ... for the greater good of course.

It's true that there has been a good deal of over-grazing by sheep. That's because of policies set outside of Wales by highly centralised authorities elsewhere.

At the same time the farming community are still, on the whole, the bedrock of Welsh identity. Any plan to impoverish them or turn this independently minded class into a tribe of waiters should be firmly resisted.

Anonymous said...

Having read many of the interesting comments I was left wondering does anybody except me like anything about our county today other than being interested in its history.We dislike Llandodies(whatever they are or do), our current upland landscape since man arrived,the spoil heaps that constitute the Elan/Claerwen valleys and the Norman and contemporary Norman invaders from the East,.What do your esteemed readers like about contemporary Radnorshire or is it time to seek out a new Patagonia or hitch up for another Great Trek.?

radnorian said...

Cheers Anon

I think you have to differentiate between what I like that is Radnorshire specific and what isn't

Of course there's a whole world of things that are positive but which are not Radnorshire specific. We might think the internet is great or the greater concern for nature or the improved access to the countryside etc But none of that is Radnorshire specific.

When we turn to Radnor specifics I'd say that what I like is everything that reminds me of the positives in Radnorshire's past.

That may be a bit flippant and one positive for me is the way in which most Radnorshire folk are more at ease with their Welsh identity than they were a couple of decades ago.

Still plenty of negatives though.

Fferllys said...

Contemporary Radnorshire is wonderful, enriched by the root of its diverse and colourful history, whilst creating its own history of the now for the future. No need for a new Patagonia.

Thanks for sharing that link to the guardian article - very interesting, and interesting worthwhile debate.

I agree with Radnorian re the farming community.